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Re: Lesson 8
Thu, August 11, 2005 - 3:17 PMPast thoughts do not mean anything.
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Re: Lesson 8
Thu, August 11, 2005 - 3:20 PMmy thoughts are like everything I see; they do not mean anything. -
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Re: Lesson 8
Thu, August 11, 2005 - 3:46 PMthis seems to be happening a lot, but for the sake of clarity and fullness of understanding, let's define "meaning"... at least in the context it is being used here. -
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Re: Lesson 8
Thu, August 11, 2005 - 7:55 PMLesson # 9 is: I see nothing as it is now.
Lesson # 10 is: My thoughts do not mean anything.
Lesson # 11 is: My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.
The lessons are somewhat ambiguous and vague when taken on their own, however the collective message of the whole is a very powerful curriculum.
Thoughts are meaningless only when our minds are occupied with past thoughts, because we don't see anything as it is NOW. With past thoughts we see a world in the past and not as it is now; therefore it is meaningless.
Here's how I've integrated these lessons.
When I get in an argument with someone and afterwards dwell on it in my mind over and over, I am essentially living in the past by allowing my mind to replay the argument many times over. The next time I see the person, I am very likely to still be thinking about that past argument, therefore not seeing the person as they are now. Every encounter with another person is a chance for salvation by seeing the Power, Beauty and Perfection Present in them if only I can look beyond the meaningless past that I project onto them.
I have reached lesson 88. Even though it has been hard work, my motivation is still very high because I feel I'm so close to a profound breakthrough.
Past thoughts and holding onto grievances hide the light of the world from us. We must be determined to see things differently.
Peace -
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Re: Lesson 8
Thu, August 11, 2005 - 8:04 PMI find it very difficult to make a counter reply to this, because I accept that what you say is true on lots of levels. But, there is something deep in me, and I'm sure you have this understanding as well, and we're just dancing around the same point (maybe), that can't negate the profundity of past experience when reflected upon. I am constantly pulling new and beneficial meaning out of recollections of past experiences and interactions, and although the more common occurence of dwelling on an argument is exactly along the lines you describe, but every once in a while, while dwelling on an argument, I find some sort of closure or epiphane, that I would not have found otherwise. I guess, for me, this is another issue of being wary of generalities.
Past experience is meaningless because it doesn't exist. But is meaningful because it helps us to learn and maintain that learning. Imagine if you had to learn how to drive a car everytime you got into one. Extend this idea outward and life would be an extremely difficult thing.
But still. You are so very right. I suppose it's always just a matter of balance. The world is only as meaningless or meaningful as we assign it to be. -
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Re: Lesson 8
Thu, August 11, 2005 - 10:23 PMMost of the driving of a car is relegated to our unconscious.
For me, the past really is profound, and it is so,
in proportion to me not assigning the meanings to it,
as I used to.
Possibly what I do can be called unlearning,
and then a deeper learning, or perhaps insight.
Hope this makes sense,
John -
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Unsu...
Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 12:54 AM"...in proportion to me not assigning the meanings to it..."
Absolutely!
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Unsu...
Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 12:50 AMI think the concept of our thoughts being meaningless also has to do with the fact that we are assigning the meaning as we go along. That includes past, present, and future thoughts. And occurence is just an occurence. If you had a fight then when it is in the past you keep focusing your thoughts on it and it disturbs you, it is not the fight that is the problem. It is the meaning that you have arbitrarily assigned to the fight. And thoughts are things that can be changed at any moment. With the example of using the past to know how to drive a car, that does not become and issue for people because the meaning of "boy, I'm angry that I know how to drive a car" is never assigned to that particular activity. Therefore, there is no response or reaction.
So, in short, thoughts are meaningless because WE ARE MAKING THEM UP AS WE GO ALONG. They are completely manufactured and can be changed at any moment. -
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Unsu...
Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 12:53 AM... and I don't think even something as common as driving a car is relegated to our subconscious. If somebody gave themselves the thought, and believed it, that they absolutely hated the fact that they learned how to drive, then almost every time they got in the car, they would be angry to some extent. -
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Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 6:00 AMHmmmm. . .
I am on the same line of thought as Kevin . . .I have had to contemplate the Past in order to see past the illusions of that moment, to heal the "perceived" wounds . . . to bring me closer to the Truth within any given moment in the Now --to cast away the Illusions.
My questions/ponderings on the matter:
How can thought be completely "meaningless" when thoughts are the powerful tools of creation --be it illusions, mundane occurences or universes?
In the beginning was the Word / God said let their be Light, and so it was... was not "Pure and True Thought" the seed of creation?
We are called to integrate the spiritual with the physical . . .
so although we know the Truth of the Lesson, we must be able to balance and integrate it here in the density of this demension . . .
Would it be better said that it is not the "thought" that is purely meaningless, but the emotion generated from the Illusion experienced within an occurence?
~NAMASTE~ -
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Unsu...
Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 8:50 AMWell, emotions are generated depending upon what your thought is about something. If you think something is scary, then the emotion of fear will follow, if you think something is fun, then the emotion of happiness will follow.
When I say that the thoughts are meaningless, all I'm saying is to maintain the recognition that we are in control of our thoughts and they are totally changeable. Don't take them seriously. You can sit in a scary movie, have a thought of fear as you are immersed in the illusion of the film, but then you walk out and it's over because you recognize that it's just a movie. Same thing with life. It's just a movie. What you think about it is what will create your reality. -
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Unsu...
Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 8:52 AM... good example would be that the exact same activity holds completely different emotions for different people because of their thoughts about it. One person can find skydying fantastically exciting. Another would be scared to death. All depends on what they think of the activity and their experience within it. -
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Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 12:11 PMI definitely agree with you on this point . . .
and love the skydiving analogy you use to convey your THOUGHT.
;-)
~Light and Love~
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Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 1:21 PMYes, but the thing is that neither one of these positions seems more reasonable than the other. (regarding the skydiving analogy)
Um, ok, so here's the thing. I love going to a movie and being completely sucked into it even though I know, "it's just a movie". So why should this movie be any different. My relationship to the world movie is to lose and find myself in it, not to step back from it and say, hey this is just a movie, so it's all meaningless. I am capable of finding meaning and joy and sorrow, etc. in the world, and learning from all of these, in full recognition that "it is just a movie". By the ticket. Take the ride.
Play the game. It's all we've got...
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Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 1:48 PMGod did not create a meaningless world. -
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Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 3:06 PMI want to preface this thought with:
~NAMASTE, BELOVED BROTHERS AND SISTERS~
Some of the course I flow with and some I don't.
I do not feel that one should take the teachings to such a cold, clinical extreme . . . Jason and Kevin are dead on point . . . I feel their points bring balance into the thread here that feels devoid of emotion.
If we do not question, how do we learn?
Is it not possible that the "channel" for this teaching might not have had a completely unobstructed "filter" ? . .we are human, and prone to error.
There are two sides to everything and I strongly believe the middle is where we should strive to place ourselves . . .
there is a quote in my blog that I invite all to read . . . "Conversations With God" and the advise on working at the level you are at . . .
Might I note that CWG references a Course in Miracles, as well as other authors . . . they are not devoid of hope . . . we are in the "human condition" and must work within the framework that we are in . . . in all its folly and glory . . . the name of the game is evolution --raising the human condition out of its current state . . .
I don't know if anyone caught the point I was trying to make in capping "THOUGHT" . . . it is by this "meaningless" thought that a message was conveyed.
Light and Love
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 4:22 PMI think the definition of "meaningless" is getting mixed up. "Meaningless", as I'm speaking of it here, does not mean devoid of content (as in "detachment" does not mean "lack of involvement"). It is "meaningless" in the sense that each of us are the ones assigning the meaning, so the meaning of anything is not inherent. The meaning can be changed from person to person, from day to day. So there is no built in "meaning" to anything - it is only what we decide it is. So, things or events are "meaning-less" in the fact that they have no given meaning of their own.
This gets confusing for a lot of people because they think of "meaningless" as being equivalent to nothingness, and "detachment" as being equivalent to no interaction. That's not it. There is something, there is just a recognition that we are cause of it so it is not taken seriously. As I said before, you see a movie, you assign meaning to it while you're wathing it, then you walk out. You don't carry it with you for life and believe it to be the truth of existence.
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Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 4:52 PM<And occurence is just an occurence.>
Don't you believe in synchronicity? I do, I believe that things happen for a reason and synchronicity is God's way of letting you know you are on the right path. -
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Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 5:07 PMI do believe in synchronicity. But I think I apply a different mechanism to it than "god" (allowing for various interpretations of this word). Although, it may well be that. My current liking is to think that synchronicity has something to do with the fact that we are all connected and in this way synchronicity in a way is spontaneously manifested out of your connection to all other things. Even Rupert Sheldrake's idea of morphic resonance or of morphic fields (www.sheldrake.org) seems to satisfy my curiosity over why synchronicity occurs. But this is just my current interpretation and in the nature of Lesson 8 I don't intend to let it clog my belief system. It is just my current model, for now. Until something more convincing presents itself.
I suppose my reason for shying away from this other notion of synchronicity is that it comes relatively close to a position of pre-determinism, which I don't like to imagine is the case. -
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Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 7:40 PMI read an interesting book recently called Collision with the Infinite about a woman who experienced a spontaneous "awakening" and for the next ten years thought she was having a psychotic episode. She couldn't process her experience through the mind, and having no one to relate to didn't understand her sudden falling away of personality, and attatchment, but she wrote about all the human emotions and thoughts still existing, still arising, but no longer recognizing them as the Source of her being.
I don't think anyone here is saying emotion is worthless, and the past has no meaning. I for one want to experience being human, but under that is something deeper, more beautiful, and far sweeter.
The main thing is to drop our attatchments to those emotions, to honor them but not to see them as who we are. There's nothing wrong with healing the past, and respecting the layers of illusion it stripped away from us; the idea is not to live there, to realize we can choose again in every moment. Imagination, intent, thought is a vehicle to manifestation. No one can deny the worth in that. The mind *is* where the Ego lives though. It's about using the mind, in place of it using you.
This thread seems to have brought up resistance for people.... I agree it's important to take in what feels right to you in all spiritual teachings, to use what registers on a deeper level, and to pass on the rest. -
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Re: Lesson 8
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 8:03 PMHazzah for that! I agree with everything you said...
Way to tie together the loose threads Piper. :-D
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