A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

topic posted Mon, February 25, 2008 - 10:14 PM by  Lee
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A Course in MIracles Straight and Simple is a Yahoo Group that applies ACIM in simple terms to everyday life. We are also doing the daily workbook lessons this year. All are welcome to join in there are no requirements for participation. Newbies and "seasoned" ACIM students can be found here.

Thank you very much! I am so happy to find your heavenly Tribe. :)

groups.yahoo.com/group/ACo...andSimple/
posted by:
Lee
offline Lee
Boston
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  • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

    Mon, February 25, 2008 - 11:41 PM
    Thanks for letting us know. This tribe has so few posts, I'm all for checking out your yahoo group. Maybe people actually discuss ACIM with some frequency.

    Of course, if more of you in this group here on Tribe will actually post sometimes, I'll be around to participate in discussions. I use Tribe every day. I much prefer Tribe to the other sites.
    • CG
      CG
      offline 47

      Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

      Tue, February 26, 2008 - 1:30 PM
      Hi Christie,
      You know,.......... you've got me thinking.
      Maybe we could announce a program to discuss ACIM in some structured way. I notice the Yahoo group is doing the lessons sequentially.
      We could do something like that, or the chapters in the workbook maybe. I'd be willing to plan something with the tribes input, and then e-mail the existing tribe to let em know what were up to. What do you think?
      • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

        Tue, February 26, 2008 - 3:20 PM
        Yes some sort of structure could be good. That way we have a focus on a topic to discuss.

        Discussing the chapters of the Text could be good. But that is what the Yahoo group is doing. And may be harder to keep up with.

        I suggest we start with the Principles of Miracles. There are 50. We could do one a week, or more per week. What do you think is a good pace for this group?
        • CG
          CG
          offline 47

          Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

          Tue, February 26, 2008 - 4:22 PM
          OK, sure, the Principles of miracles.
          Tribe works fine for me. Just a thought Christie, but has this particular tribe been very active this last year? I'm new to tribe in general and am curious about your point of view. If we were to email an invitation to participate to existing members, and didn't get much of a response, maybe it's time for a new tribe. One where people who are actually interested in participating could come together. New guidelines for participating could be drafted, an active moderator chosen, or maybe a shared moderator position, rotating on a monthly basis to who's ever turn it is. I'm just looking to breath some fresh life into this. I don't mean to sound like I can't or wont be happy to do it here, just thinking.......
          • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

            Tue, February 26, 2008 - 9:24 PM
            Some thoughts.

            This tribe is not very active, as tribes go. Of 192 supposed members, I just went through the posts over the last year and see 12 or 13 members that seem to be actual students of ACIM that have posted. These are the active members as I see it:

            Sharka, Mark, myself (Christie), CG, Jahara, Piper, Jeffe, Newt, Guy, Mister E, Charles, Tony, & Cathy.

            I don't know if even all of these people still check this tribe. There are likely 2 or 3 others who check this tribe when it has new posts but have never once posted anything here.

            I think staying here has it's good points. Piper is fine as moderator. But we'd need someone to take the group leader role. I suggest Mark or CG. Staying here would give us the background of all the things that have already been discussed.

            Starting a new tribe also has some good points. The group leader and moderator could be the same person. New guidelines for participating could be drafted and be in place at the head of the tribe. That would be great in encouraging people to post now and then. And all these supposed members, 175 - 180?, would not be cluttering up the space. Many of them probably don't even use Tribe at all anymore.

            So I actually like the idea of starting a new tribe. But if Piper, Mark or anyone else want to change the focus of this tribe to get more participation and conversations, now would be the time to speak up.

            About sending people PMs requesting their participation, I'd only bother sending it to the ones I've listed above, perhaps a few others if you want. And for anyone who wants to be included in the new tribe now would be the time to post something and let us know you are here!
          • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

            Tue, February 26, 2008 - 9:34 PM
            One more thing. The change of moderator function does not work as expected every time, these days. So I don't advise changing moderators back and forth (shared moderators) at this time. In one tribe I'm in the moderator choose me to moderate while she was away on vacation, and during the transfer something went wrong, some kind of bug, and now the tribe has no moderator at all. We can't get Tribe staff's attention about it either about appointing a moderator.

            We could even make the new tribe a private tribe. This gives the freedom for participants to write what they want knowing it will not be able to be viewed by anyone and everyone browsing the internet. But if we do make it a private tribe, then the moderator we want should be the one to start the tribe. Are you up for it CG? Or Mark?
            • CG
              CG
              offline 47

              Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

              Wed, February 27, 2008 - 7:25 AM
              Hey Christie,
              thanks for researching the participation and pulling out the list of those who are active.

              I'd like to moderate an ACIM tribe. I really would like the chance to encourage, listen, support, and share experiences with others around The Course in Miracles. Starting fresh, given the low number of actual participants here feels good. I'd be willing to get out on some of the other sites for ACIM and let folks know where we are and invite them to drop by. I'd love the chance to be a gracious host, in return for everything I've been given by The Course. Their are international sites out there, and sometimes finding a study group is about finding a style and friendly participation level somewhere that makes you feel comfortable enough to open up.

              I really like the idea of studying the actual Course, it's lessons, chapters etc. and then setting aside space to discuss the course from an "as I see it" point of view. I came to love and depend on the actual written material for many years before I ever had a friend to discuss it with, and while I do enjoy hearing people "put it in their own words" and think I honestly feel that's a completely valid part of incorporating the Course into our lives, It never has, for me, been more important than the lessons and workbook as the source of my study.

              I do need time and a supportive friend to see how well I'm able to speak about what I've been learning, but I also continue to rely on the Course itself as the Source of the my understanding, and the Source of direction I would offer to others. I trust the Course to answer all the needs of it's students, and will only offer my interpretation of a lesson as a secondary support or encouragement.

              Cliff.....
              • CG
                CG
                offline 47

                Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                Wed, February 27, 2008 - 9:20 AM
                It could even be part of the ACIM tribes mission statement, what the structure for discussion is on the tribe.

                As an example,

                Structured study of a specific area, such as Principles of Miracles, and how we'll do that.

                an some structured responses, such as,

                What I feel about that,
                How I'm applying that today,
                Where in look in the Course for further explanation and thoughts about that principle etc.
                How I relate that to another area's of the Course.

                And open reflections, where we're just talking from our own point of view about it.
                Maybe along with the focused work in a specific area, we could also have an open and ongoing area for reflection on a topic of our own choosing, where we take turns offering something to reflect on related to our particular life situation or study, so that every one gets a regular chance to get input where they are and with what there dealing with, without losing the focus on the specific area we're studying.
                • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                  Wed, February 27, 2008 - 10:16 AM
                  A Few Thoughts...

                  Personal Background:
                  I started studying ACIM in 1988 at that time I had previous
                  experience in both Jewish and Christian mystical tradition.
                  I got through chapter 8 of the Text before I was convinced that
                  doing the daily lessons in the Workbook would actually take
                  me a direction I wanted to go. After participating in a group for
                  some time, I was invited to facilliatate that group. I ended up
                  being known in my community as "the gay ACIM guy." I've had
                  the good fortune to study with Jack and Eulalia Luckett (Jack
                  was the executive director of the publisher, FIP and both were
                  very close to Bill Thetford.) I've read every single word of all three
                  books plus the two pamphlets (on prayer and on psychotherapy.)
                  In addition I've read all the main textbooks of new thought and
                  metaphysics: Science and Health by Mary Baker-Eddy, Scientific
                  Christian Mental Practice by Emma Curtis Hopkins, Divine Science
                  By Nona Brooks, Lessons in Truth by Emily Cady, Science of Mind
                  by Ernest Holmes, etc. I don't say these things to blow my own horn,
                  just as an indication of what I think is significant for a public teacher
                  in a forum like this. Too many people have too little knowledge, yet still
                  put forward baseless opinions *as* truth. My feeling is that ACIM is
                  consistent with these other thought systems, as well as contemporary
                  authors like Tolle and Ruiz.

                  About Tribe:
                  I'm all for discussing ACIM with people who are actually using it as a
                  discipline to transform their lives. I'm not intereted in linguistic nit-picking.
                  I believe that part of the power of the material lies in its poetry, it speaks
                  to us at an emotional and subjective level. I'm not interested in a purely
                  academic systemic apporoach. Jack and Layle had me singing the words
                  of the lessons, reading the text with a broad Southern drawl, etc. Course
                  groups I've been affiliated with were all full of laughter, jokes and joy as
                  much as thy were about serious exploration and serious application. Many
                  of my colleagues are dealing with serious life-threatening illness, so course
                  is extremely real to them as they talk about seeing beyond appearances like
                  suffering and death.

                  ACIM is not a psychotherapy. In my opinion it is also not about rules and
                  procedures. So any mission statement should be open-ended; enough
                  to keep the community focused, but not limiting. Let churches and religions
                  be about "doing it right." Let ACIM students be about doing the discipline
                  and producing more love and laughter in their lives. In my opinion there's
                  nothing more tedious than a fundamentalist-metaphysician whether their
                  scriprure is Conversations with God, Sciene and Health or ACIM. I've met
                  many of them. They say things like: "if you're here, you haven't gotten it yet"
                  and then they cite 15 or 20 verses as proof or invoke the Holy Name of
                  Wapnick! :-)

                  I'm not campaigning to be moderator, BTW. Just sharing my considered
                  opinion based on having been in it for a long time and having seen a lot.
                  I think a minimum criterion for moderator should be that they've completed
                  the 365 lessons at least once if not also read the manual and text.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    CG
                    CG
                    offline 47

                    Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                    Wed, February 27, 2008 - 11:15 AM
                    A few more...

                    "I don't say these things to blow my own horn, just as an indication of what I think is significant for a public teacher in a forum like this."

                    I don't require any more significant credentials than the Course provides for myself or for another person. "I am as God created me". After that I think it's pretty much irrelevant what you want to claim about yourself.

                    Why do you think it's significant, "in a public forum like this"?
                    Is it because you think "Too many people have too little knowledge, yet still put forward baseless opinions *as* truth"?


                    "I'm not interested in linguistic nit-picking." Do you think someone here is?

                    "Many of my colleagues are dealing with serious life-threatening illness, so course is extremely real to them as they talk about seeing beyond appearances like suffering and death."

                    Is there someone you know who doesn't have a body, which is dying slowly by degrees, or in danger of expiring tomorrow?
                    Are we supposed to imagine that because of the work your colleagues have chosen, bodily health etc., that they are more important
                    because of that, that they're work is more serious, more deserving of something?

                    "ACIM is not a psychotherapy. In my opinion it is also not about rules and procedures."

                    I have always noticed that the Course is structured in a very specific way, as if it knows how to achieve it's goals, and asks us to follow the path it's laid out, even if we don't understand it.

                    From the Course, lesson 361-365...

                    "This Holy instant would I give to You. Be You in charge. For I would follow You, Certain that Your direction gives me peace.

                    Most Doctors are only guessing at the direction they should take. They certainly mean well, but medicine is a physical science, with all that implies, and different from the Course in it's outlook, in what it promises, and in what it imparts.


                    In my opinion there's nothing more tedious than a fundamentalist-metaphysician whether their scriprure is Conversations with God, Sciene and Health or ACIM. I've met many of them. They say things like: "if you're here, you haven't gotten it yet"
                    and then they cite 15 or 20 verses as proof or invoke the Holy Name of Wapnick! :-)

                    Does someone here remind you of a "fundamentalist-metaphysician"?

                    In your first post on this thread.
                    You responded to this question by Christie,

                    "This tribe could have more discussion, What's to stop people from jumping right in"? with this comment,

                    Maybe fear is present more than love?

                    My response to what you said is from the Course,

                    "To give and to receive, are One in Truth.


                    Maybe fear is present more than love?
                    • CG
                      CG
                      offline 47

                      Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                      Wed, February 27, 2008 - 11:41 AM
                      At the bottom of what I just added I attributed a quote to Christie that it seems wasn't hers.

                      It doesn't change my response to your comment Mark.

                      Also, I wasn't asking questions just to be asking them. I really want to know who your referring to when you make statements calling someone a "fundamentalist-metaphysician " If they're not about someone here, and what your reading here, maybe you could include that in your colorful opinions of tedious people. If it's not about someone here, and what your seeing here, is it really relevant or useful? If so then how?
                      • CG
                        CG
                        offline 47

                        Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                        Wed, February 27, 2008 - 12:26 PM
                        Since I have some time today, given the phase my work is in, I'd like to ask you Mark about your point of view regarding having some structure, or lack of structure, in a Course in Miracles group or tribe.

                        Can you tell me about some social organization that has the type of one you'd prefer. I don't participate in any completely unstructured environments myself, and I usually accommodate the structures that exist if it's someplace I want to be, and I get value from being there.
                        If I get an opportunity to participate in creating the social structure I enjoy that, but also recognize the needs and desires of the others sharing in it's creation. Socially,I don't just do what I'm told by my "elders", because they think they're more experienced or right, and then accept their take on how to arrange my life.

                        In my spiritual life I do listen and follow teachers I acknowledge as having my deepest well being in mind, even when I can't see it. I choose those teachers carefully, and when they remind me I'm always learning from my interactions I agree. With that said, your not one of those teachers, the way the Holy Spirit is for me, so I won't be doing what you tell me to, even though I'll be learning from our interaction.

                        You are a child of God Mark, and are as God created you. Your not the Source of all Creation, though you are connected to that Source.
                        You are the Son of God, and so you have my respect and brotherhood, but your not my Father, and I'm certainly not yours.
                        In order to get along in this world and not get confused about who I am and how to relate, I rely on the Holy Spirit, as defined by the Course in Miracles, not the Holy Spirit as defined by you.

                        I won't be relying on anything, in fact, as defined by you. I won't be asking anyone to accept my definition of life as truth, nor will I be telling them how to live based on my definition of living. I'm not asking anyone to rely upon my ideas or direction at all. I'm asking God to help me rely on His, through the Holy Spirit, as I learn to do live together with my brothers and sisters here.
                      • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                        Wed, February 27, 2008 - 12:43 PM
                        I'm wondering is someone feels threatened.
                        My comments are not directed at anyone; there
                        is no attack-intent from my side. If somebody
                        is experiencing attack, that is their business.

                        I'm just putting out what I've observed in the
                        general course community and also in tribes
                        generally, not here particularly.

                        If somebody wants to change this forum, or create
                        another forum, I would want them to consider these
                        obsevations. That is all. If somebody doesn't want
                        to consider my observations and experience, they
                        are free to do that.

                        My first response in this thread was that if people want
                        a more lively conversation in this tribe, let them speak up.
                        Complaining doesn't help, and to my way of thinking, what's
                        to stop people from speaking up? Since ACIM proposes that
                        there are only two motives where does that leave us? I merely
                        ask is fear more present than love? No assertion, no attack.
                        Hopefully a conversation starter.

                        As for the process of ACIM: yes it is structured. We can say
                        "love is all there is" but I doubt that that is much more than
                        parroting the words unless one has completed most of the
                        lessons. I know students who don't really get it until the
                        second pass. The point is not believing, but experiencing
                        it 24/7/366.
                        • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                          Wed, February 27, 2008 - 1:59 PM
                          I think that both CG and Mark are qualified to lead an ACIM group.

                          CG has specifically said that he is interested in moderating and starting a new group. A fresh new group would need that kind of motivation.

                          I happen to not agree that someone has to have already completed the course and read all of the material in the text, teachers manual and other pamphlets to lead a ACIM group on Tribe. From what CG writes, I feel he has a good understanding of the material already. The process of doing the Course for the first time is very powerful, imho. I don't even know if it is the first time Cliff has done the Course, but if it is that is totally fine with me.

                          Mark you are very qualified and I think of you as the leader of this group, with Piper acting as moderator.

                          I find I can easily read what CG writes, and it flows well in an unsophisticated way. Also, Cliff's fresh look to an ACIM group on Tribe could give the new tribe a unique character. This tribe could continue, too. I would not be leaving this tribe.

                          But this tribe has not been that active. CG is the one to have thought of forming a new tribe, inviting those who seem to actually participate. A smaller group of active participants could give a more meaningful experience to discussing ACIM on Tribe than this very large group of people who seem not to be doing the course at all, and one wonders why they are here.

                          Mark, you have not expressed interest in leading a new tribe, yet. So my vote, at this time, goes to CG. I'd like to see someone leading a new small group that has enough interest to post fairly often and give the group a little direction to encourage everyone in the group to post at least once in a while.

                          Hopefully some other members of this group will vote, too. Because I'd also be happy with Mark leading a new tribe if he gets the majority of votes.

                          One vote for CG, from Christie.


                          • CG
                            CG
                            offline 47

                            Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                            Wed, February 27, 2008 - 6:21 PM
                            Hey Christie,

                            I am interested in starting a fresh group. I didn't think of it as leading a new group, as I don't really think about what I do that way. If the definition of leader were one I could live with, then it'd be OK with me. I hope it's not tiresome, but I'd need to have some conversation about what leadership means to a group studying the Course beforehand though. Moderator was what I was thinking of originally, and I'd be happy to discuss both concepts.

                            I've completed the 365 day style study of the Course, workbook for students, and teachers manual twice. The first time in about.....
                            well I was in New Mexico at the time, after going A Wall from the Army, long story........ so I was about 24/25yrs old and I'm 46 now...
                            so about 1985 give or take... The next time was on the East coast, Cape Cod area...... about 1999.

                            What I think of as the real beginning for me was the first time I heard the Voice. I still remember it clearly today. I was in a Baskin Robbins ice cream place back in 1999 on a hot day in Albuquerque N.M. near the University. I was just sitting eating ice cream and watching a young couple walk by across the street. I had some random unkind thought about him. Something like, I bet she would like me better than him. You know, the internal boasting of a 24yr old male. Without it sounding audibly different, or coming from a different physical place in my head, I had a thought that wasn't my own. It was kinder and more mature. It was gentle, which I wasn't at that time about guys my age, and it said, "You don't need to be unkind to your brother. There is another way to think about him." I don't remember what kind of ice cream I was eating, :) but I'll never forget that moment. I was stunned. I went back to the little apartment I had and looked again at the lesson I was on.
                            Lesson 30, "God is in everything I see because God is in my mind". Then the text reads, "The idea for today is the springboard for vision. From this idea will the world open up before you, and you will look upon it and see in it what you have never seen before."

                            From that day forward I've never been without the Course, and my dog eared, scribbled in and highlighted book is still with me on my desk today.

                            Now that you've brought up the version story, I'm a bit floored. I just got back from looking at the site for the original version posted in that thread, and I'll purchase the original version. Is this the one you use Christie? I look forward to reading and studying it, and while I'm excited about it, I'm also hopeful that the core teachings won't have been significantly altered in the version I've been studying. Studying alone, as I always have until joining this tribe, I've relied more and more over time on the Voice for God. I had no one else really, to consider it with.
                            I'm a little nervous saying that, as I've never said it to someone before, and worry about how it might be perceived. In my entire life I've never said to someone, in response to what they're saying, .... the Holy Spirit says....... (blah blah blah), and I never will. I have always though wanted to hear from others what they thought about something after asking for guidance from the Holy Spirit. It just seems to me to be part of the point of the Course to develop an inner dialog with the Holy Spirit.

                            I'll be glad to get the new book and will probably start the full 365 day study one more time when I do.

                            I'm a project supervisor at work and have to arrange the timing of multiple sub contractors and their interactions with each other for the good of the client, the job, and the benefit of the sub contractors themselves. I manage 3 to 20 men at work each day. I provide the supervision necessary to have harmony in the workplace and facilitate the efficiency of each contractors work. They make better money, having to work for less time to complete the work they bid, than they would have to at a disorganized job site. They know my reputation going into it, or have worked with me before, and so give me lower bids for the work they do. They know their going to complete it fast in a friendly environment, so I get better prices for the client. I do all the demolition work with my partner, all the clean up, and all the finish carpentry as well.
                            Currently I'm building the residences for the 17th Karmapa at Nalanda West in Seattle. I do cultural sensitivity assistance as well. :)

                            www.kagyuoffice.org/


                            • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                              Wed, February 27, 2008 - 6:52 PM
                              >>I am interested in starting a fresh group. I didn't think of it as leading a new group, as I don't really think about what I do that way. If the definition of leader were one I could live with, then it'd be OK with me. I hope it's not tiresome, but I'd need to have some conversation about what leadership means to a group studying the Course beforehand though. Moderator was what I was thinking of originally, and I'd be happy to discuss both concepts.
                              <<

                              I like the idea of a fresh group, too. I used the term "group leader" meaning someone to guide the group, as a moderator often does in many tribes. Some moderators are hands off, though, and don't do much if anything to guide the direction of the group. I use the term "group leader" not so much as looking for a leader to follow, like a guru or something, but as someone who can write the heading and guidelines of the group and do what might be necessary along the way if difficulties arise. I think all of us doing ACIM are teachers as well as students and are uncelebrated leaders in our societies.

                              >>I've completed the 365 day style study of the Course, workbook for students, and teachers manual twice. The first time in about.....
                              well I was in New Mexico at the time, after going A Wall from the Army, long story........ so I was about 24/25yrs old and I'm 46 now...
                              so about 1985 give or take... The next time was on the East coast, Cape Cod area...... about 1999.
                              <<

                              If the first time you did ACIM was around 1985 it is likely you used the "original edition" of ACIM, which is not the UR Text. The UR Text came out later on.

                              And as far as I know the workbook lessons are the same in all versions that have a workbook. Some versions don't include the workbook at all, though.

                              I am a little confused by the discussion of a FIP version. This must be referring to a later version than the "original edition". But the "original edition" was also published by Foundation for Inner Peace.

                              One way we could find out which version you have is to compare some of the principles of miracles. They are actually different in different versions. That's a good example of why I prefer to stay with the "original edition". It is the one I trust, because it is the ACIM I've completed. And it is the only one I would do again. But if someone can't get a hold of an "original edition", then I can understand why they might want to read one of the other versions. But I think that the "original edition" has had more releases than the last one I know about in 1985. It may be sized differently, different pages and paragraphs, maybe very small print, but if the words are the same as the "original edition" that is what matters most.

                              I like your story of hearing "The Voice", and what you say about talking about the Holy Spirit. I have often been uncomfortable talking about the Holy Spirit because so many people are down on Christian teachings, and it sounds like I am Christian if I talk about the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit is very real, and may be hard to avoid using the name in a group about ACIM. This is one of the reasons I suggest the fresh tribe be a private tribe.

                              Since you haven't been on Tribe that long, you may not be familiar with private tribes. I've been on Tribe less than a year, although I spend lots of time here so feel I know it well. I am a member of one private tribe. We keep it private to share a certain intimacy in our communications, not because it is anything x rated or anything. It is quite tame, actually. We get a lot of participation in the tribe of only about 20 people.

                              Since students of ACIM are often reluctant to talk about God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit in a public forum, having a private tribe could encourage people to discuss their questions and revelations and just plain old musings more openly amongst each other. Any serious student of ACIM should of course be permitted to join the tribe, and we could even point it out to other students as time goes by. Since a private tribe cannot be stumbled upon like public tribes can.

                              What are your thoughts on this? And as far as I'm concerned, go ahead and start working on the new tribe. Either private or moderated, or even public, I think you'll make a great moderator.
                              • CG
                                CG
                                offline 47

                                Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                                Wed, February 27, 2008 - 7:33 PM
                                "One way we could find out which version you have is to compare some of the principles of miracles. They are actually different in different versions. That's a good example of why I prefer to stay with the "original edition". It is the one I trust, because it is the ACIM I've completed. And it is the only one I would do again."

                                Let's find out about the versions we have by comparing the Principles section as you suggested. I'll adopt your version if mine is different. I'm actually a little excited to see if their not. Some of what I read on the other thread you brought up was definitely not in my book., but rang true to the Course's intentions as I understand them. If so I'll switch over as what I read felt right to me.

                                "I like the idea of a fresh group, too. I used the term "group leader" meaning someone to guide the group, as a moderator often does in many tribes. Some moderators are hands off, though, and don't do much if anything to guide the direction of the group. I use the term "group leader" not so much as looking for a leader to follow, like a guru or something, but as someone who can write the heading and guidelines of the group and do what might be necessary along the way if difficulties arise. I think all of us doing ACIM are teachers as well as students and are uncelebrated leaders in our societies."

                                That's all I needed to hear about leadership. I'm satisfied we feel similarly about it.

                                As far as writing the heading and guidelines, I'd like it if we could do that together, and then review it when the tribe fills out some. I'd want it to be appropriate for the members, and would like to have their input over time as to how it should read.
                                I don't mind at all moderating/leading in the style you've described. I'm always interested in helping to manage the environment so that peoples interactions are facilitated by encouragement, support and direction. I'm not shy about giving direction when I feel it's needed to accomplish the goals the group has agreed on.

                                I think privacy would serve us well, for many of the same reasons you've already stated. If at some point the group wanted to go public we could always do that. I'd like to encourage intimate revelations from the group in a safe setting.

                                Thanks Christie for your encouragement. I'm picturing getting it up and going, and then following my sense that there are others out there looking for what we intend this to be, finding them, and inviting them in.
                                • Principles of Miracles

                                  Wed, February 27, 2008 - 8:46 PM
                                  Principles of Miracles, from Chapter One of A Course in Miracles Text, original edition.

                                  1.There is no order of difficulty in miracles. One is not "harder" or "bigger" than another. They are all the same. All expressions of love are maximal.

                                  2. Miracles as such do not matter. The only thing that matters is their Source, Which is far beyond evaluation.

                                  3. Miracles occur naturally as expressions of love. The real miracle is the love that inspires them. In this sense everything that comes from love is a miracle.

                                  4. All miracles mean life, and God is teh Giver of life. His Voice will direct you very specifically. You will be told all you need to know.

                                  5. Miracles are habits, and should be involuntary. They should not be under conscious control. Consciously selected miracles can be misguided.

                                  6. Miracles are natural. When they do not occur something has gone wrong.

                                  7. Miracles are everyone's right, but purification is necessary first.

                                  8. Miracles are healing because they supply a lack; they are performed by those who temporarily have more for those who temporarily have less.

                                  9. Miracles are a kind of exchange. Like all expressions of love, which are always miraculous in the true sense, the exchange reverses the physical laws. They bring more love both to the giver and the receiver.

                                  10. The use of miracles as spectacles to induce belief is a misunderstanding of their purpose.

                                  11. Prayer is the medium of miracles. It is a means of communication of the created with the Creator. Through prayer love is received, and through miracles love is expressed.

                                  12. Miracles are thoughts. Thoughts can represent the lower or bodily level of experience, or the higher or spiritual level of experience. One makes the physical, and the other creates the spiritual.

                                  13. Miracles are both beginnings and endings, and so they alter the temporal order. They are always affirmations of rebirth, which seem to go back but really go forward. They undo the past in the present, and thus release the future.

                                  14. Miracles bear witness to truth. They are convincing because they arise from conviction. Without conviction they deteriorate into magic, which is mindless and therefore destructive; or rather, the uncreative use of mind.

                                  15. Each day should be devoted to miracles. The purpose of time is to enable you to learn how to use time constructively. It is thus a teaching device and a means to an end. Time will cease when it is no longer useful in facilitating learning.

                                  16. Miracles are teaching devices for demonstrating it is as blessed to give as to receive. They simultaneously increase the strength of the giver and supply strength to the receiver.

                                  17. Miracles transcend the body. They are sudden shifts into invisibility, away from the bodily level. That is why they heal.

                                  18. A miracle is a service. It is the maximal service you can render to another. It is a way of loving your neighbor as yourself. You recognize your own and your neighbor's worth simultaneously.

                                  19. Miracles make minds one in God. They depend on cooperation because the Sonship is the sum of all that God created. Miracles therefore reflect the laws of eternity, not of time.

                                  20. Miracles reawaken the awareness that the spirit, not the body, is the altar of truth. This is the recognition that leads to the healing power of the miracle.

                                  21. Miracles are natural signs of forgiveness. through miracles you accept God's forgiveness by extending it to others.

                                  22. Miracles are associated with fear only because of the belief that darkness can hide. You believe that what your physical eyes cannot see does not exist. This leads to a denial of spiritual sight.

                                  23. Miracles rearrange perception and place all levels in true perspective. This is healing because sickness comes from confusing the levels.

                                  24. Miracles enable you to heal the sick and raise the dead because you made sickness and death yourself, and can therefore abolish both. You are a miracle, capable of creating in the likeness of your Creator. Everything else is your own nightmare, and does not exist. Only the creations of light are real.

                                  25. Miracles are part of an interlocking chain of forgiveness which, when completed, is the Atonement. Atonement works all the time and in all the dimensions of time.

                                  26. Miracles represent freedom from fear. "Atoning" means "undoing". The undoing of fear is an essential part of the Atonement value of miracles.

                                  27. A miracle is a universal blessing from God through me to all my brothers. It is the privilege of the forgiven to forgive.

                                  28. Miracles are a way of earning release from fear. Revelation induces a state in which fear has already been abolished. Miracles are thus a means and revelation is an end.

                                  29. Miracles praise God through you. They praise Him by honoring His creations, affirming their perfection. They heal because they deny body-identification and affirm spirit-identification.

                                  30. By recognizing spirit, miracles adjust the levels of perception and show them in proper alignment. This places spirit at the center, where it can communicate directly.

                                  31. Miracles should inspire gratitude, not awe. You should thank God for what you really are. The children of God are holy and the miracle honors their holiness, which can be hidden but never lost.

                                  32. I inspire all miracles, which are really intercessions. They intercede for your holiness and make your perceptions holy. By placing you beyond the physical laws they raise you into the sphere of celestial order. In this order you are perfect.

                                  33. Miracles honor you because you are lovable. They dispel illusions about yourself and perceive the light in you. They dispel illusions about yourself and perceive the light in you. They thus atone for your errors by freeing you from your nightmares. By releasing your mind from the imprisonment of your illusions, they restore your sanity.

                                  34. Miracles restore the mind to its fullness. By atoning for lack they establish perfect protection. The spirit's strength leaves no room for intrusions.

                                  35. Miracles are expressions of love, but they may not always have observable effects.

                                  36. Miracles are examples of right thinking, aligning your perceptions with truth as God created it.

                                  37. A miracle is a correction introduced into false thinking by me. It acts as a catalyst, breaking up erroneous perception and reorganizing it properly. This places you under the Atonement principle, where perception is healed. Until this has occurred, knowledge of the Divine Order is impossible.

                                  38. The Holy Spirit is the mechanism of miracles. He perceives both God's creations and your illusions. He separates the true from the false by His ability to perceive totally rather than selectively.

                                  39. The miracle dissolves error because the Holy Spirit identifies error as false or unreal. This is the same as saying that by perceiving light, darkness automatically disappears.

                                  40. The miracle acknowledges everyone as your brother and mine. It is a way of perceiving the universal mark of God.

                                  41. Wholeness is the perceptual content of miracles. They thus correct, or atone for, the faulty perception of lack.

                                  42. A major contribution of miracles is their strength in releasing you from your false sense of isolation, deprivation and lack.

                                  43. Miracles arise from a miraculous state of mind, or a state of miracle-readiness.

                                  44. The miracle is an expression of an inner awareness of Christ and the acceptance of His Atonement.

                                  45. A miracle is never lost. It may touch many people you have not even met, and produce undreamed of changes in situations of which you are not even aware.

                                  46. The Holy Spirit is the highest communication medium. Miracles do not involve this type of communication, because they are temporary communication devices. When you return to your original form of communication with God by direct revelation, the need for miracles is over.

                                  47. The miracle is a learning device that lessens the need for time. It establishes an out-of-pattern time interval not under the usual laws of time. In this sense it is timeless.

                                  48. The miracle is the only device at your immediate disposal for controlling time. Only revelation transcends it, having nothing to do with time at all.

                                  49. The miracle makes no distinction among degrees of misperception. It is a device for perception-correction, effective quite apart from either the degree or the direction of the error. This is its true indiscriminateness.

                                  50. The miracle compares what you have made with creation, accepting what is in accord with it as true, and rejecting what is out of accord as false.
                                • Re: A Course in Miracles Group

                                  Wed, February 27, 2008 - 8:52 PM
                                  >>As far as writing the heading and guidelines, I'd like it if we could do that together, and then review it when the tribe fills out some. I'd want it to be appropriate for the members, and would like to have their input over time as to how it should read.
                                  I don't mind at all moderating/leading in the style you've described. I'm always interested in helping to manage the environment so that peoples interactions are facilitated by encouragement, support and direction. I'm not shy about giving direction when I feel it's needed to accomplish the goals the group has agreed on.

                                  I think privacy would serve us well, for many of the same reasons you've already stated. If at some point the group wanted to go public we could always do that. I'd like to encourage intimate revelations from the group in a safe setting.

                                  Thanks Christie for your encouragement. I'm picturing getting it up and going, and then following my sense that there are others out there looking for what we intend this to be, finding them, and inviting them in.
                                  <<

                                  I agree with this CG. I will help you write the heading and guidelines if you like. I'll need some time to think on it, or when you have something in mind you can PM me with it and I'll tell you what I think we should add to it or say differently.
                                  • CG
                                    CG
                                    offline 47

                                    Re: A Course in Miracles Group

                                    Wed, February 27, 2008 - 10:09 PM
                                    That was a heroic post. You must type with more than two fingers. :) Thank you. Really, that was an amazing feat and yes we're studying the same version! I'm really happy we're reading the same book. I thought i could deal with a new version, but reading those Principles is like seeing old and dear friends. I know the words almost by heart. Glad to hear you'll write the guidelines together with me.

                                    I just visited some strange sites by following the link in the thread about the versions.
                                    It made my head hurt a little. I don't mean to be critical, but some of them are styled as if by six year olds. Others are selling so much stuff I couldn't find any way to contact them with a question. They also talk about the versions in a completely confusing way. If I have the energy to unwind it all, maybe I'll create a short paragraph on the issue against it being needed in the future, but not tonight. Yikes what a mess.

                                    I'll say goodnight, and put some thought into the guidelines. I'll start with a rough draft in a PM. (just figured out what that means)

                                    I'm really excited by this opportunity. The Course has been invaluable to me and I've wanted to be involved in sharing it with people for a long time.
                                    • Re: A Course in Miracles Group

                                      Wed, February 27, 2008 - 10:17 PM
                                      Thanks. Yes it took a little doing to type that. And I've learned since the last time I tried it (months ago when I was new to Tribe) to keep hitting the back button and then the forward button and type a few more, otherwise the page will time out and the post will be lost. That's what happened the last time I tried to post the Principles of Miracles. Now that I've typed them out, we have them and can copy them to where we need them. They should really be at the head of a thread when people get ready to talk about them.
                        • CG
                          CG
                          offline 47

                          Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                          Thu, February 28, 2008 - 1:50 PM


                          "I'm wondering is someone feels threatened."

                          Why don't you just say it in a more straightforward way Mark?
                          Such as, I think you feel threatened CG. Someone? Wondering?

                          Or better still, why not just ask rather than assume, such as, Are you choosing to feel threatened by what I said CG? My answer would be no, I'm not.

                          If you believe I'm responding to feeling attacked, then why ask the question, as if you just "wonder".

                          "My comments are not directed at anyone; there is no attack-intent from my side. If somebody is experiencing attack, that is their business."

                          Your comments are directed at someone Mark, unless your just talking to yourself on a public social network site with two others present at the time you spoke. Your comments are directed at someone, unless your speaking to some person from your past, or your imagined future. Your comments are directed at someone, unless they have nothing to do with the content that came before them on the thread, in which case you really are just talking to your self, albeit in a strange venue for private self reflection unrelated to anyone present.

                          " If somebody is experiencing attack, that is their business."

                          Let's say for a minute someone was experiencing feeling attacked. Your answer as a teacher of the Course is, "that is their business" With all the Course offers to speak to someone's feelings of attack, you offer that?

                          "I'm just putting out what I've observed in the general course community and also in tribes generally, not here particularly."

                          Putting out what you've observed? You don't think that, just maybe, you could question the validity of your observations by asking questions? If you don't think so Mark, then your "observations" aren't really questions.

                          If, your observations are really opinions that you believe to be true, you'd have no reason to ask questions. If that's the case then just say so. Honestly Mark, just observations? From what position do you observe, from what height in relation to what your observing?

                          "If somebody wants to change this forum, or create
                          another forum, I would want them to consider these
                          obsevations. That is all. If somebody doesn't want
                          to consider my observations and experience, they
                          are free to do that."

                          You want them to consider your observations because of your experience?

                          Please consider this Mark, what if what's more real to people isn't your claims to experience, but their experience of interacting with you.
                          Yes, ...................the experience they choose to have,................ but,............that experience none the less.

                          It's good to want things Mark.

                          "My first response in this thread was that if people want
                          a more lively conversation in this tribe, let them speak up."

                          Actually Mark, that may be what you meant people to understand, but it's not what you said. You said, "This tribe could have more discussion, What's to stop people from jumping right in? Maybe fear is present more than love"?

                          Try to quote yourself accurately.

                          Then you said "Complaining doesn't help,".

                          Do me a favor and tell me who was complaining, and accurately quote it back to me so I can comment on it. Maybe once again, your not really talking to anyone here about anything related to what's being said here. If that's the case then don't bother.

                          "I merely ask is fear more present than love? No assertion, no attack. Hopefully a conversation starter".

                          Was that your hope? Do you have an opinion you'd like to share about which you think is more present, in order to "start a conversation"? Do you have any opinions at all that you'll express in a conversation, or is it all just observations, and your vast experience you'd like to share. Is your understanding so complete and without need for growth that your finished learning anything in a conversation with others, and only have your wisdom left to share with us?

                          "As for the process of ACIM: yes it is structured. We can say "love is all there is" but I doubt that that is much more than parroting the words unless one has completed most of the lessons. I know students who don't really get it until the second pass. The point is not believing, but experiencing it 24/7/366."

                          I'll give you my opinion of that statement later.

                          I have opinions Mark. I'm still learning through my interactions. I'm careful to remember that, but willing to express myself, in order to see how well I'm able to express in words what I'm feeling inside. I'm willing to have my thoughts be questioned, so I don't offer them as facts, because their not. Their just the best I'm able to express myself in that moment. From what others say about my thoughts and ideas I'm able to see, reflected in their eyes, how I come across. If I feel misunderstood, I try to say more clearly what I meant to say, and take responsibility for doing that. I also realize that it's in the mirror of relationship that my brothers and sisters help me balance, help me to be a part of the larger Christ Self we share. I don't always like the feedback, but I try to express myself more clearly, if my intentions were to feel closer to them, more understood by them, and more understanding of them.

                          Other times I have opinions that are not a lovey dovey. They're meant to create some chance to get along better, but their not "observations " without direction to anyone in particular. They are direct. They are about something.

                          Maybe helpful, maybe not?

                          I find out from committing to them, and being responsible for having said them.

                          Here's one now.

                          You behave like a pompous ass.

                          pompous = ( self important, affectedly grand, arrogant, magisterial, boastful, and imperious ) ass = ( four legged long eared mammal related to the horse)

                          I'm willing to quote you specifically in defense of that opinion. It's just one I currently have about you.

                          Any questions?

                          • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

                            Thu, February 28, 2008 - 8:57 PM
                            Thank you for sharing.

                            I'm quite aware that all we have here are words
                            on a screen. We do not have vocal inflection, body
                            language, etc. So this is not the best mode of
                            communication.

                            My observations are based on in-person ACIM groups,
                            not internet ACIM forums. I have never studied ACIM
                            without face-to-face community. I'm sure your experience
                            is different from mine. Take them or leave them, I don't care.

                            I initially heard a "why isn't this tribe more active?"
                            So I say: "Gee, why not speak up then."

                            So then there's interest in forming a new group, I support that
                            if people want to do that. I'm not omniscient, I don't know who
                            wants a new group. So I share to the public (any interested parties):
                            "These are things you might want to consider."

                            Ok so, CG I don't know you are threatened, but it seems that way
                            to me. It makes me "wonder" because I am not omniscient.
                            So I'm being indirect out of being polite. Name calling certainly
                            looks like an attack too, but I won't assert that I know what goes
                            on on your mind. I don't really want to go there.

                            I admit it freely, there are people who think I'm arrogant, opinionated
                            and / or pompous. I'm okay with that. People who actualy know me
                            don't think that. You may ask Jack and Layle in Waikiki, Denis Moore
                            in Portland, or John Mundy in New York. So I chalk up the misunderstanding
                            between brothers as a result of very limited communication and exposure.
        • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

          Wed, February 27, 2008 - 5:22 PM
          >>Discussing the chapters of the Text could be good. But that is what the Yahoo group is doing. And may be harder to keep up with.

          I suggest we start with the Principles of Miracles. There are 50. We could do one a week, or more per week. What do you think is a good pace for this group?
          <<

          The yahoo group (which I joined) is using the UR Text for it's discussion on the Textbooks chapters. So I'll not be joining their discussion groups on the chapters I don't think.

          After starting with the Principles of Miracles this group (or another new Tribe group) could continue with the chapters of the Textbook.
          • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

            Wed, February 27, 2008 - 10:52 PM
            If it were up to me, after working on principles,
            I'd go to the manual or to the prayer pamphlet.
            My reason is that they are shorter, more concise
            and compact in their expression, more poetically
            beautiful and not as "heady" i.e more heartfelt
            than intellectual. Although I am "an intellectual,"
            I don't want to get bogged down in that.
            • Re: A Course in Miracles Yahoo Group

              Wed, February 27, 2008 - 10:57 PM
              I like your thinking. Those places would be a good place to go after the principles, too. You'd have to be the one to type out the prayers in the prayer booklet, though, I have lost mine.

              I put music to one of the prayers years ago and used to sing it accompanied to my own guitar at the few ACIM group meetings I attended. My father, who used to lead groups, liked the song a lot and he might even remember how it goes. I've forgotten, unfortunately.

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